当前在线人数13885
首页 - 分类讨论区 - 体育健身 - 举重若轻版 - 同主题阅读文章

此篇文章共收到打赏
0

  • 10
  • 20
  • 50
  • 100
您目前伪币余额:0
未名交友
[更多]
[更多]
ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
[版面:举重若轻][首篇作者:fitforfun] , 2011年03月11日14:42:48 ,514次阅读,13次回复
来APP回复,赚取更多伪币 关注本站公众号:
[分页:1 ]
fitforfun
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 1 ]

发信人: fitforfun (FFF,飞放), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Mar 11 14:42:48 2011, 美东)

Dave Tate三十年力量举和健美训练的经历。读起来很有意思。

The Evolution of Dave Tate
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_evolution_of_dave_tate
这个是总结。如果看完了不看下面的了也可以。

Phase 1 - Progressive Overload
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/dave_tates_iron_evolution_phase_1_progressive_overload

Phase 2 - Bodybuilding
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/dave_tates_iron_evolution_phase_2_bodybuilding_1

Phase 3 - Return to Powerlifting
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/dave_tates_iron_evolution_phase_3_return_to_powerlifting

Phase 4 - Westside Barbell, the Mental Aspect
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/iron_evolution_phase_4

Phase 5 - Westside Barbell, Technique
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/iron_evolution_phase_5
这一集有很多技术的东西,详细讲解深蹲,卧推和硬拉的技术要点并有视频。

Iron Evolution: Phase 6 - Westside Barbell, Physical
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/iron_evolution_phase_6

Iron Evolution: Phase 7 - Retirement and a New Journey
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/iron_evolution_phase_7

Iron Evolution: Phase 8 - Coaching, nutrition side of strength and physique
development
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/iron_evolution_phase_8

Iron Evolution: Phase 9 - Putting Myself in John Meadows' Handshttp://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/iron_evolution_phase_9

他总算写完了。

--
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. - Friedrich Nietzsche
For P90X:beachbodycoach.com/fitnessforfun
http://www.mitbbs.com/bbsdoc/Weightlifting.html,欢迎来举重版

※ 修改:·fitforfun 於 Jul  4 14:43:09 2012 修改本文·[FROM: 71.218.]
※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 204.87.]

 
fitforfun
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 2 ]

发信人: fitforfun (FFF,飞放), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jul  4 14:46:48 2012, 美东)

From Part 9:

The Perfect Strength Supersoldier

If you've read through all the installments in this series you're probably
wondering what I think is the absolute best training from my thirty years
under the bar.

What would I do if I had access to a 13 year-old Dave Tate who wanted to be
the ultimate bad ass? How would I train him to make him among the strongest
men on the planet, yet jacked and muscular, with outstanding health as well?

Next to Westside, what I'm doing now with Meadows is the most productive
training I've ever experienced. But neither of these systems is appropriate
for a novice.

Most raw novices are too weak for either method. Hell, most are too weak for
weight training period.

A raw novice's time would be better spent doing bodyweight training. You
should be able to perform 100 push-ups, minimum, before even approaching a
bench press. Add in pull-ups, lunges, and the other bodyweight staples to
complete the program.

After a decent base of bodyweight strength has been developed, I'd next
perform a sensible linear progression routine until respectable strength
levels are achieved. 5/3/1 by my friend Jim Wendler and Starting Strength by
Mark Rippetoe would fit the bill perfectly, with assistance work programmed
to target any emerging weak points in size and strength.

However, after a certain threshold of development – say a 1.5 x bodyweight
bench press, a 2 x bodyweight squat, and a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift – it's
time to step it up.

I'd follow a Meadows-type hypertrophy routine for about 7 months of the year
. If the primary goal was bodybuilding, the programming would be designed to
bring up any lagging body parts (delts, biceps, etc.).

If powerlifting was the main goal, the programming would try to stabilize
any weak points such as the hamstrings and lower back. I'd also perform more
sets of 5 reps or below.

After this 7 month phase was complete, I'd do 4-6 weeks of transition work
in which I'd slowly scale the reps down while working in the traditional
powerlifts.

Then, it's strength time. I'd do 12-16 weeks of Westside training, ideally
leading into a powerlifting meet if that was the end goal. If not, the
assistance work could shift to address any aesthetic weak points that might
benefit from heavy, basic loading.

After this 12-16 week phase, I'd take 2-3 weeks to do absolutely nothing
before reassessing my physique and identifying any weak points again. Then I
'd start the whole system over.

Would such a system create the absolute best powerlifter or bodybuilder? No,
some coveted muscle fullness would be lost in the Westside phase, and some
strength would surely go during the long bodybuilding phases.

It would, however, create an athlete that's truly the best of both worlds –
muscular, strong, and well rounded.
--
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. - Friedrich Nietzsche
For P90X or ChaLEAN Extreme:beachbodycoach.com/fitnessforfun
http://www.mitbbs.com/bbsdoc/Weightlifting.html,欢迎来举重版

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 71.218.]

 
linkthesky
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 3 ]

发信人: linkthesky (天使的翅膀), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul  5 08:04:51 2012, 美东)

for this one, it will be harder to do 100 pushups when you are 180lb growing
up from 130lb:
A raw novice's time would be better spent doing bodyweight training. You
should be able to perform 100 push-ups, minimum, before even approaching a
bench press. Add in pull-ups, lunges, and the other bodyweight staples to
complete the program.
--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 148.106.]

 
linkthesky
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 4 ]

发信人: linkthesky (天使的翅膀), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul  5 08:07:31 2012, 美东)

and this one, bench press is easy to achieve, but 2x squats is way too much
more difficult for normal people, since most of people tend to have a weak
posterior chain, I did not see anyone who has successfully pass their 1.5x
squat without an injury, except professionals:
However, after a certain threshold of development – say a 1.5 x bodyweight
bench press, a 2 x bodyweight squat, and a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift – it's
time to step it up.


--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 148.106.]

 
moonriver
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 5 ]

发信人: moonriver (Lonesome Dove), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul  5 12:00:14 2012, 美东)

Squat isn't as bad as he mentioned ba? I didn't have any major issue before
1.5x. And actually most my problems are not directly from doing weight
lifting...


【 在 linkthesky (天使的翅膀) 的大作中提到: 】
: and this one, bench press is easy to achieve, but 2x squats is way too
much
: more difficult for normal people, since most of people tend to have a weak
: posterior chain, I did not see anyone who has successfully pass their 1.5x
: squat without an injury, except professionals:
: However, after a certain threshold of development – say a 1.5 x
bodyweight
: bench press, a 2 x bodyweight squat, and a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift – it
's
: time to step it up.




--
Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love... true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.

※ 修改:·moonriver 於 Jul  5 12:01:52 2012 修改本文·[FROM: 134.134.]
※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 134.134.]

 
fitforfun
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 6 ]

发信人: fitforfun (FFF,飞放), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul  5 13:07:01 2012, 美东)

这个我也有些疑问。除非他说的100个俯卧撑不是连续的。

【 在 linkthesky (天使的翅膀) 的大作中提到: 】
: for this one, it will be harder to do 100 pushups when you are 180lb
growing
:  up from 130lb:
: A raw novice's time would be better spent doing bodyweight training. You
: should be able to perform 100 push-ups, minimum, before even approaching a
: bench press. Add in pull-ups, lunges, and the other bodyweight staples to
: complete the program.
--
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. - Friedrich Nietzsche
For P90X or ChaLEAN Extreme:beachbodycoach.com/fitnessforfun
http://www.mitbbs.com/bbsdoc/Weightlifting.html,欢迎来举重版

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 204.87.]

 
fitforfun
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 7 ]

发信人: fitforfun (FFF,飞放), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul  5 13:09:11 2012, 美东)

大部分人squat都练得不够。我感觉1.5x squat应该比1.5x bench容易达到。

【 在 moonriver (Lonesome Dove) 的大作中提到: 】
: Squat isn't as bad as he mentioned ba? I didn't have any major issue
before
: 1.5x. And actually most my problems are not directly from doing weight
--
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. - Friedrich Nietzsche
For P90X or ChaLEAN Extreme:beachbodycoach.com/fitnessforfun
http://www.mitbbs.com/bbsdoc/Weightlifting.html,欢迎来举重版

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 204.87.]

 
linkthesky
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 8 ]

发信人: linkthesky (天使的翅膀), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul  5 13:23:53 2012, 美东)

I recently have some new feeling about squats...

A LOT of people in my gym are doing squats up to 315lb, but only very few of
them are keeping their form while close to limit. The most obvious one is
leaning forward when you are getting up, for example, there are about three
phases when you are doing ATG squats:
1. get up from bottom, at this moment you are using your hamstring and glute
muscles to boost at the beginning, so called "hip drive", most people
achieve their 1.5x squats can do this easily.

2. from close to parallel to 60 degree from parallel, this part is the "form
breaking" moment. ironically it is the essence of squats - using your quads
. but A LOT of people did not develop their quads good enough, their quads
or say legs are not strong enough to lift them up, so they tend to lean
forward to leverage the weight on the lower back, and break the form.

3. from 60 degree to straight up, if no form breaking, this is the easiest
part, but if form breaking, or quads not strong enough which leads to your
escalate speed too slow, you will lose your momentum and this part will
become difficult.

All in all, my opinion is squats is not about lower back, not about hip
drive, but about your QUADS back to the very beginning why we start to train
squats.

【 在 fitforfun (FFF,飞放) 的大作中提到: 】
: 大部分人squat都练得不够。我感觉1.5x squat应该比1.5x bench容易达到。
: before



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 148.106.]

 
fitforfun
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 9 ]

发信人: fitforfun (FFF,飞放), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Jul  8 12:10:27 2012, 美东)

我的体会是,你说的第一点是Rippetoe说的“rebound"或者“bounce",你的第二点
才是需要用到他说的“hip drive"的时候。

【 在 linkthesky (天使的翅膀) 的大作中提到: 】
: I recently have some new feeling about squats...
: A LOT of people in my gym are doing squats up to 315lb, but only very few
of
:  them are keeping their form while close to limit. The most obvious one is
: leaning forward when you are getting up, for example, there are about
three
: phases when you are doing ATG squats:
: 1. get up from bottom, at this moment you are using your hamstring and
glute
:  muscles to boost at the beginning, so called "hip drive", most people
: achieve their 1.5x squats can do this easily.
: 2. from close to parallel to 60 degree from parallel, this part is the "
form
:  breaking" moment. ironically it is the essence of squats - using your
quads
: ...................
--
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. - Friedrich Nietzsche
For P90X or ChaLEAN Extreme:beachbodycoach.com/fitnessforfun
http://www.mitbbs.com/bbsdoc/Weightlifting.html,欢迎来举重版

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 184.96.]

 
linkthesky
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 10 ]

发信人: linkthesky (天使的翅膀), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Jul  9 07:52:55 2012, 美东)

no, Rippetoe said "hip drive" is when get up, hip is moving before chest.

using your hamstring/glute is not bounce, bouncing is always associated with
round lower back and form break.


【 在 fitforfun (FFF,飞放) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我的体会是,你说的第一点是Rippetoe说的“rebound"或者“bounce",你的第二点
: 才是需要用到他说的“hip drive"的时候。
: of
: three
: glute
: form
: quads



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 148.106.]

 
unclegua
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 11 ]

发信人: unclegua (纯洁的刮叔), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jul 11 00:21:19 2012, 美东)

也有一些身体前倾的是在用powerlifting style,因为那本来就是他们的技术动作。

我因为练front squat练过两年,所以没有quads力量不够的问题。有人说front squat
就是杠铃放在前面的olympic squat……
【 在 linkthesky (天使的翅膀) 的大作中提到: 】
: I recently have some new feeling about squats...
: A LOT of people in my gym are doing squats up to 315lb, but only very few
of
:  them are keeping their form while close to limit. The most obvious one is
: leaning forward when you are getting up, for example, there are about
three
: phases when you are doing ATG squats:
: 1. get up from bottom, at this moment you are using your hamstring and
glute
:  muscles to boost at the beginning, so called "hip drive", most people
: achieve their 1.5x squats can do this easily.
: 2. from close to parallel to 60 degree from parallel, this part is the "
form
:  breaking" moment. ironically it is the essence of squats - using your
quads
: ...................



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 64.83.]

 
linkthesky
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 12 ]

发信人: linkthesky (天使的翅膀), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jul 11 07:40:24 2012, 美东)

front squats is good for quads, but it has two drawbacks:
1. knee killer, it's too easy to put pressure on knee
2. cannot go heavy due to 1.

i think lounge is a better alternative, although it has drawbacks too..

if really want to focus on legs, use a combination of moves is the best idea
, low bar squats, lounge, front squats, high bar squats, leg press, etc

but when have no time for such, i use low/high bar to make it simple

【 在 unclegua (纯洁的刮叔) 的大作中提到: 】
: 也有一些身体前倾的是在用powerlifting style,因为那本来就是他们的技术动作。
: 我因为练front squat练过两年,所以没有quads力量不够的问题。有人说front
squat
: 就是杠铃放在前面的olympic squat……
: of
: three
: glute
: form
: quads



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 148.106.]

 
fitforfun
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 13 ]

发信人: fitforfun (FFF,飞放), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Wed Jul 11 23:37:28 2012, 美东)

我准备近期试试low bar squat,看能不能加点重量。
最近我的侧重点将是powerlifting。

【 在 unclegua (纯洁的刮叔) 的大作中提到: 】
: 也有一些身体前倾的是在用powerlifting style,因为那本来就是他们的技术动作。
: 我因为练front squat练过两年,所以没有quads力量不够的问题。有人说front
squat
: 就是杠铃放在前面的olympic squat……
--
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. - Friedrich Nietzsche
For P90X or ChaLEAN Extreme:beachbodycoach.com/fitnessforfun
http://www.mitbbs.com/bbsdoc/Weightlifting.html,欢迎来举重版

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 174.16.]

 
unclegua
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 14 ]

发信人: unclegua (纯洁的刮叔), 信区: Weightlifting
标  题: Re: ZT: Dave Tate's Iron Evolution
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul 12 00:39:46 2012, 美东)

可以go heavy的,练举重的前蹲可以达到后蹲的90%重量。
【 在 linkthesky (天使的翅膀) 的大作中提到: 】
: front squats is good for quads, but it has two drawbacks:
: 1. knee killer, it's too easy to put pressure on knee
: 2. cannot go heavy due to 1.
: i think lounge is a better alternative, although it has drawbacks too..
: if really want to focus on legs, use a combination of moves is the best
idea
: , low bar squats, lounge, front squats, high bar squats, leg press, etc
: but when have no time for such, i use low/high bar to make it simple
: squat



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 64.83.]

[分页:1 ]
[快速返回] [ 进入举重若轻讨论区] [返回顶部]
回复文章
标题:
内 容:

未名交友
将您的链接放在这儿

友情链接


 

Site Map - Contact Us - Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy

版权所有,未名空间(mitbbs.com),since 1996